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I have a 2013 F6B with Rush pipes and torq pipes. Would a Reflash of ECU make a noticeable gain in performance or am I wasting money and time?

I called Guhl performance, he said there is no real gain from torq pipes... Almost hard to believe because catalytic converters are normally restrictive to a point.

I just want to know if you can tell in the seat a noticable difference (?)
 

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Hey Scot – Just an opinion, the problem with trying to modify the performance of an 1800 model GW is that it typically takes some serious footwork amongst the external sensors plus a PROM Re-Flash to out maneuver the factory computer settings. Some early 1800’s can not be Re-Flashed or they don't take to it well. Exhaust pipes DO sound better and look nice.

At least the Guhl guys seem honest and not trying to lead you astray. There are some Plug and Play Chip Kits available that claim to boost HP and MPG but fail to mention the “Magic Wand” that’s also needed can be pretty hard to come by.

Good Luck and Ride Safe
 

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.. They're reflash improves bike's performance all around shifting points things like that but has nothing to do with the engine fuel which is where you get your performance. The only thing you can do is add a little unit booster plug there's a couple others out there that will give you a little more gas to take it out of the lean condition. I would assume with what you have had done you would need it and it would definitely help the motor but you may not be able to feel the difference you may hear the difference in the sound and the feeling of the motor.
 

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Hey Scot - Just some additional general information - although I haven’t needed the service myself, there used to be several ECU computer re-flash companies around. A couple of the 1800 GW owners in our riding group sent their computers away (to Florida ?) and were successfully re-flashed for various reasons.

There are a few band-aide tips that can give you the basic system status and help to determine if you only need a minor tweak to the computer. For example - while trying to sort out a slight stumble on one bike, I added a 1k ohm resistor in series to the Air Temp Sensor to simulate a cooler than normal air intake temp. Although the increase to the injector pulse width did cover the lean moment during take-off, this troubleshooting step did not solve the whole problem. It did help determine that the computer would need a re-flash because of multiple other issues.

Because there are more than one performance level and parameter combination available during a re-flash, it sometimes takes several tries before everyone is completely satisfied. The only down side is that at times the occasional “Check Engine Light” will get reported with no consistent error code. All of the bikes did result in a “seat of the pants” performance improvement but each had a drop in MPG compared to their original factory settings.

Good Luck and Ride Safe - Michael
 

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Michael, you are very smart. That's what the booster plug does, adds a little fuel. I would think that would be needed after the removal of the cats and original mufflers. Funny, my 2020 does not act lean and I don't know how Honda does it in some of the engines! In the old old days a the resistor was used. Could you give me the part number and tell us where it installs? I will bet it is a lot less expensive the the $179 booster.
 

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Hey Scot - It has been a while but if I remember correctly the 2013 GW Air Temp Sensor resistance (water temp sensor range is identical) was approximately 4 k ohms @ 60 degrees (F) and goes down toward 1k ohms @ about 100 degrees. Modern FI systems still use the temp sensitive variable resistor material to measure a change in temp. The actual resistor looks like a very small glass bead held at the tip of two wires. By soldering a fixed generic 1k ohm resistor in series with the factory sensor the injector pulse width was increased to make a richer mixture. This temporarily troubleshooting step tells the computer that the incoming throttle air was always cooler than normal. A hotter spark plug can be tried to recover some of the lost MPG.

Believe it or not, the modern electronic FI computers (cars and motorcycles) are virtually all based on the same control theory. Many of the parts (Injectors, Fly By Wire Throttle Motors, Throttle Position Sensors, MAP Sensors, Temp Sensors, etc….) operate the same. To keep cost down and save money many vehicle manufacturers buy mass produced off-the-shelf parts for their assembly lines. It is sometimes possible to locate a cross reference parts manual to fit between models - then solder on the correct connector.

Ride Safe - Michael
 

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Just ran across this.

My advice is put the bike back to stock. Unless you invest major dollars to swap parts around and pay for gobs of testing time on a dyno (at $250.00 a pop or more), you are wasting your time.

Case in point: Back in '06 I bought n '03 Harley Sportster that had been repeatedly molested by a "tuner." His two biggest transgressions were using separate straight pipes and doing a "Thunder Jet" mod to the carb. This mod entailed drilling the vacuum port on the slide, replacing the slide main spring and putting in a larger main jet. The pipes were a complete train wreck. The mounting flange on the rear pipe was cocked so the exhaust gasket would not seal.

So, what he ended up with was some wicked exhaust reversion, the rear cylinder was running way too lean, the idle mixture was way to rich, the bike was hard to start and sucked way too much gas.

I ditched the pipes and the carb, put on a set of stock pipes with the baffles removed, and a stock carb. 5 minutes after completing the swap I had that bike purring like a kitten. Took in on a ride from Richmond to Staunton VA and got 69.999 MPG.
 

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Hey Cliff - I see you're retired Navy. I have a friend who was a Navy shipboard communications tech – who can fix anything. He has always been a great reference for anything electronic.

You’re absolutely right when it comes to keeping things stock. I only meant to suggest a few temporary troubleshooting mods while sorting out a performance problem. All the motorcycle manufactures have spent millions of research dollars to make their products behave safely no matter what the operator throws at it. Typically when someone starts modifying their fuel or exhaust system, it’s like removing different valued weights from the perfectly balanced scale.

A few years ago I had a Road Glide. Even though FI, I never could get the rear cylinder mixture right and consistently fouled the plug. Every HD owner I’ve ever known has thrown a set of straight pipes and a stage 3 “Screaming Eagle” kit on their bike. The theory is that if it sounds better, it must have more HP. 😊

Michael
 

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I was an Interior Communications Electrician Chief.

If a 2 cylinder FI engine is carbon fouling a single plug, then either something is wrong with the fuel map for that cylinder (not very likely), or tthere is something wrong with the ignition timing.

Another possibility is a problem with parade mode. Since parade mode is temperature driven, I'd start looking at the sensor and airflow restrictions around the rear jug.

This is one reason why I like water cooling...
 
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Hey Cliff – At the time the factory service bulletins and the HD dealer recommendations for why my rear plug was fouling were all over the place. It included trying a hotter plug, swapping out a couple of different sized rear injectors and even though a stock bike with No Error Codes, a new computer. I used to carry a spare plug or two with me at all times especially on a cross country trip. The Road Glide was a serious mile eater but always seemed to have something that needed attention. When I discovered that the cam drive gears were worn during a recommended service check and the crank snout and pinion shaft run out was out of spec @ 42k miles that bike was history - sold to a HD tech.

I ride with several HD owners and swap off between bikes on occasion but the GW is the only bike for me. Change the oil and check for air in the tires is just about all there is to keep up with….…….:)

Ride Safe - Michael
 

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Roger that. I just hate it when there is a known issue and the manufacturer doesn't have a clue.

I loved my Sportster, but after I got my first GW (a '99) the Sportster wasn't getting ridden, so I sold it.

One thing I have noticed about the Harley's is they were pretty much bullet proof until they went to EFI.
 
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