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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Here's a topic that is worth learning about.Its a skill and has to be experienced to be appreciated. I was asked to explain what it is but I'd like one of the instructors that frequent this site to explain it properly, we don't want anyone trying something that could be dangerous.I live in the Mountains and twisty roads are common place,no straight stretches around here.Counter steering is a technique where the rider pushes on the opposite grip as the direction anticipated which lays the bike over,it involves a different posture as well. Since the question has been asked I'll leave it to a pro to explain how it works. Dirt bikers will know right away what this is about.they all use counter steering and may not even realize it.

-Robert-
 

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Robert
I may not be an expert but did teach Gyro principles in the service.
So, here we go.
The front wheel of a bike is turning and acts like a gyro. That means it wants to stay stable. The front forks have a rake that causes a caster efect to the wheel. Gyroscopic procession is caused by applying pressure to the side of a stable gyro. The effect takes place 90 degrees from the presure in the direction of rotation and oppisite direction. So, as you push on the handlebars on the right side it applies a left force to the side of the wheel at the front of the wheel. It takes effect 90 Deg. away which would be at the bottom and in the opposite direction. Because the tire is static at this point it is translated to the top which responds the oppiosite and forces the top to lean right.
On a bike we do this instinctivly. as you lean right you either push on the right bar or pull on the left. You learned this as a kid rideing a bicycle. Personally, I pull the opposite side.
Bill
 

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Robert/Bill. That explains it well, & Bill you hit the nail on the head it becomes an instinct. I've played around with this the last couple years on the Wing & the one thing I can add is it doesn't require as much movement to accomplish the turn as does pulling on the bar. By that I mean that the slightest push on opposite handle turns the bike quite a bit. On something lighter than the wing like my Nighthawk I wouldn't even bother I don't think.

I guess it's sort of like "left foot braking in a race car" something that I could not get comfortable with.
 

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There is a book available from Amazon called Total Control by Lee Parks. This is a must read for anyone riding any type of motorcycle. Counter steering is something we all do to some extent but by applying and practicing what Lee says in his book will make you a much better rider. I've been riding for over forty years and learned a few things I was never taught before. Lonewolf, this is just about what Lee Parks says in the book. Right On!
 

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I explained it in the last thread to the basics but I learned about it when I was riding MotoX in the early 70's. Although I had been riding for some time I didn't realize how much the deliberate movement would make. I find that deliberate countersteering and knowning the limits of the bike you are riding will keep you in your lane instead of drifting over into another lane when making a fast sweeping turn. My wife was having problems with this and after a little practice she can ride with most sport bike riders. I really don't give it much thought anymore as it has just become a part of reg riding. It is a great tool for hard mountain riding
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've been pondering this since I posted it.A word of caution to the uninitiated to the dynamics of counter steering which is open to discussion here. I don't countersteer with a passenger on the back very much and there's a reason. A passenger tends to lean with the bike in the corners which can throw the rider who is trying to countersteer off balance. In true agressive countersteering I tend to take a more vertical posture as the bike flip flops from side to side under me.This requires actually sliding sideways on the seat to stay in a vertical position.Its durn near impossible to do that with a passenger on the back. Four dynamics are happening all at once,Inertia,Gyroscopic procession as Bill calls it,air tunnel force(the front fender is a designed air scoop), and gravity.Thats a bit of laymans science. I studied the air scoop effect of the front fender and found thats what keeps the front wheel tracking straight on a MC. If there is anything loose on the fender it could possibly cause a high speed wobble so checking your front fender making sure everything is tight is a good idea. Guess I got carried away with dynamics, but hey I've been doing this a long time same as most of yawl :)

-Robert-
 

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A passenger tends to lean with the bike in the corners which can throw the rider who is trying to countersteer off balance.
Back when I started taking my girlfriend at 17 (Who 30 some years later is now the wife) on the back of my OSSA she started leaning with the bike. I abruptly got her to stop (wondering now why she's still around) & ever since then I never had a time when she tries to help. Which is a good thing. I will say this though Robert, you my friend have given this alot of thought. Further proof that us guys up North are going stir crazy.:D
 

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There is a book available from Amazon called Total Control by Lee Parks. This is a must read for anyone riding any type of motorcycle. Counter steering is something we all do to some extent but by applying and practicing what Lee says in his book will make you a much better rider. I've been riding for over forty years and learned a few things I was never taught before. Lonewolf, this is just about what Lee Parks says in the book. Right On!
Well what the heck, I just ordered some more reading material "Total Control". It will give something to read up on while the bike is in hibernation.
 

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I only know 2 ways to get a bike to fall into a corner. Countersteering, works best on the gas. Sliding off the seat, knee pointing at the apex, eyes looking at the exit works best under brakes. Of course this in on a RS125 GP bike. When you weigh 68kg and your bike weighs 300kg it's move your bum across and lean while pulling on the tank with your knee and countersteering all at once :)
I manly countersteer to stand the bike up on the exit if the next corner is to close to use the gas to power out.
As already mentioned countersteering is a good way to center the bike in the lane, works best if you have a big screen to hide behind. Subconcious countersteering happens with no fairing and the rider moving the upper body to the side resulting in pushing the bar on that side and pulling the other to keep the bike straight in a cross wind.
 

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It is fun to sit still and let Jeanne lean the bike into a curve. She dossn't even know she is doing it.
 

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Over the years my wife has learned how to be a good passenger. She follows my every movement. She knows when a hard left is coming up as soon as my body rolls up on the seat she's right there with me. When we travel long distance she falls asleep on the back of the bike. I don't do the hard twisties while shes snooring, lol
 

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All of us counter steer maybe with out knowing it. The only way a motorcycle can turn is to lean. The easiest way to lean a cycle is to countersteer. I think people who crash in panic mode actually try to tricycle steer their motorcycle. Of course this wil not turn the bike and they ride straight into what they are starring at ... every time!

Collision avoidance, look away and countersteer ( lean). Believe me if u stare at that pot hole you will hit it !
 

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All of us counter steer maybe with out knowing it. The only way a motorcycle can turn is to lean. The easiest way to lean a cycle is to countersteer. I think people who crash in panic mode actually try to tricycle steer their motorcycle. Of course this wil not turn the bike and they ride straight into what they are starring at ... every time!

Collision avoidance, look away and countersteer ( lean). Believe me if u stare at that pot hole you will hit it !
My Brother in law drove right into the side of an 18 wheeler trying to steer away from the truck (like a trike) lucky for him he went down locking up the brakes and just got a bad case of road rash. He was a newbie and kept telling me "I was steeering away from the truck and it was sucking me in" He never got back on another motorcycle.
 

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riding

A motorcycle is a lot like an arrow. It will hit what it is aimed at. Learn to look away from a hazard.
 

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I am in agreement, my father had a 1930 model A p/u truck. Many a time when I drove it people beside me on the road would stare at it and start driving closer to me. It is just natural to go ware you look. I believe birds fly the same way.
 

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Lonewolf - In the past I taught MC riding and did some counter steering work but never really understood why it worked, it just did. I, agree with a lot of the posts that we all likely used it a little without knowing it but it can be a real tool if practised and understood in real twistie, riding situations.
 

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If there is anything loose on the fender it could possibly cause a high speed wobble

bstar, I've discovered another way to get that high speed wobble but I don't want to try it again. I was riding to work one day when all of a sudden, I realized that I forgot to raise my antenna (radio was coming in loud and clear). Anyway, I quickly figured ok, I'll just raise her up right? Wrong. As I reached back on my right side and grabbed the verticle wire, the bike starts to wobble and it didn't feel too good, or safe for that matter. After completing the reaching, grabbing, raising, and wobbling, it convinced me that if I ever forget the damned antenna again, I'll just wait till I'm stopped to try to get-r-up. It was the closest I've been, so far, to wiping out. I just chalked it up to live and learn.
 
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