[Stratman]

I recently spoke with a 'knowledgeable' sales rep at a local Honda dealer, who said "they strongly advise against using synthetic oil in a Wing as it will cause clutch slipping problems". I suppose the "they" is mother Honda. I replied I have been using it for years with no issues.
Has anyone else heard this? I know several members use synthetic and don't recall reading about any issues.
Thanks,
Strat

 

[Bill Reber]

Sounds like a few other dummies who get jobs at a dealer and BANG they are pro's

 

[Ron Robertson]

The only issues I've heard of is if it has the ( Friction Fighters ) in it, that will cause the wet clutch to slip.
I've never tried this but I heard from a friend of a friend that knew a guy that heard from another guy. That if you do use oil with the friction fighters in it and the clutch starts to slip. Drain the oil put in fresh oil minus one half pint. Add a half pint of Marvel Mystery oil and run till the clutch stops slipping. Drain and put fresh oil in again.
I have seen this work on a 1500 that the clutch was slipping. Don't know what cause the clutch to slip, but I do know it fixed.
Can't say it will work in ever instants but it could be worth a try.

 

[budoka]

Honda sells HP4M that contains moly. It is racing oil so I assume it's for track use only. Race bike engines are contantly torn down and clutches replaced so I think that's why they have it available. I always tell customers that it isn't inteded for street use because of the moly ingredient. Couldn't get a decent answer from any of my reps though. Better safe than sorry I think.
As to the synthetics causing slippage, that's bunk IMO. Been using synthetics since 1985 and never had a clutch problem ever. As long as it's m/c formulated it's fine.

 

[DooKoo's Friend]

I've used synthetic in my 07 ST1300 and did notice some clutch slippage under aggressive use in cone patterns in the past. Many motor guys I know riding the STs in motor competitions stay away from the full synthetic as it has shown clutch slippage under heavy use. So if you don't ride hard in police cone patterns I don't see any concern using full synthetic.

My buddy who rides a BMW RT1200P (dry clutch) rides the heck out of his bike in competitions - here's Quinn Redeker of Ventura PD at his recent competition in San Diego. He's almost good as I am

and this is him riding a Kawasaki Concourse 1400 in Roseville earlier this year

and here is running an ST1300

and this is my other buddy Eddie Chan from San Jose PD riding an ST1300

 

[DooKoo's Friend]

Here is Quinn on his first ride on a Concourse 1400 in competitions.
He was told no way can you fit that fat pig through the comp patterns. He proved a C14 can perform just fine
Many were blown away how he was able to take first place on it let alone fit it through the standard course dimensions

 

[tfdeputydawg]

I recently spoke with a 'knowledgeable' sales rep at a local Honda dealer, who said "they strongly advise against using synthetic oil in a Wing as it will cause clutch slipping problems". I suppose the "they" is mother Honda. I replied I have been using it for years with no issues.
Has anyone else heard this? I know several members use synthetic and don't recall reading about any issues.
Thanks,
Strat

OK, I'll ask the real question here:
What's that sales rep knowledgeable about It sure isn't about synthetic oil
Forgotten Synthetic fact:
When first introduced, it was touted as being able to run 25K miles, then change the oil filter, add a quart(remember when car/truck filters held a quart?)and run it another 25K. That quickly faded when "they" realized suggesting that kind of mileage wasn't making enough money!

 

[bikrbob]

WOW! Can he also do that with a Wing?

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

OK, I'll ask the real question here:
What's that sales rep knowledgeable about It sure isn't about synthetic oil
Forgotten Synthetic fact:
When first introduced, it was touted as being able to run 25K miles, then change the oil filter, add a quart(remember when car/truck filters held a quart?)and run it another 25K. That quickly faded when "they" realized suggesting that kind of mileage wasn't making enough money!

Your facts are a little off... Actually, AMSOIL was the first (1972) oil to promote a 25,000 mile drain interval as long as you use the AMSOIL filter. That was the life of the oil, you didn't change the filter and go further without oil analysis.

Mobil 1 attempted to advertise the same thing (about 1983) almost copying the AMSOIL can word for word with the 25,000 drain interval. Mobil 1 was not able to go the distance and almost destroyed the synthetic market.

AMSOIL continues to have 25,000 mile oils available for most gasoline "automotive" applications. In M/C's, the AMSOIL drain interval is 2x OEM up to one year using the AMSOIL filter.

As for clutch slippage..... HOGWASH.... As Long As you use a Motorcycle Specific oil!

If for some reason you wish to use an auto/diesel oil, it must have the following specs. API SG or SG/SH. SH or higher should not be used unless the oil carries a JASO MA or better yet MA 2 Rating.

Just to keep the record sraight, Rotella has a self-imposed JASO MA Rating but is not "Certified". It has not been tested but, by law, can use the JASO Rating as their additive suppliers carry that rating.

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[LarryinSeattle]

I have 12,000 miles on my Mobil 1 Racing 4T, and I am considering Shell Rotella T6 synthetic or the $13 Walmart Delo 400LE special. humm......

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

I have 12,000 miles on my Mobil 1 Racing 4T, and I am considering Shell Rotella T6 synthetic or the $13 Walmart Delo 400LE special. humm......

CAUTION:.... Be sure the Delo has an API SG OR SG/SH Rating or has the JASO MA

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[LarryinSeattle]

CAUTION:.... Be sure the Delo has an API SG OR SG/SH Rating or has the JASO MA

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

Last year, I had all of my fluids changed to Amsoil by a motorcycle shop. I believe in the product.... as I believe in Amway soap. I don't buy Amway soap cuz of their marketing methods.

Why doesn't Amsoil not sell their products through conventional retail markets? I have a hard time with "This is the best stuff, here let me sell it to you," approach from others who use it. I have always had "contempt prior to investigation" when it comes to someone endorsing a product at the same time pushing to sell it to me at what I think is a high price.

I am not being critical. I am just asking.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

Last year, I had all of my fluids changed to Amsoil by a motorcycle shop. I believe in the product.... as I believe in Amway soap. I don't buy Amway soap cuz of their marketing methods.

Why doesn't Amsoil not sell their products through conventional retail markets? I have a hard time with "This is the best stuff, here let me sell it to you," approach from others who use it. I have always had "contempt prior to investigation" when it comes to someone endorsing a product at the same time pushing to sell it to me at what I think is a high price.

I am not being critical. I am just asking.

AMSOIL does sell through Retail locations. I have several throughout the country and would be happy to set up any you know to buy Factory Direct.

Not sure why you would want to go through a retailer when you can buy direct from me and, have it dropped on your door but, that is up to you.

I don't say the things I do about AMSOIL to sell it. I sell AMSOIL because I can say the things I do and have Since 1984.

If I find a better product and a better company, I'll sell it.

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[LarryinSeattle]

You answered the question very well.

I have not seen it on the retail shelf. Perhaps I am not looking very hard... or the auto retail shops that I frequent just don't sell it. I do drive a newer Ford Ranger and a Goldwing, so I don't have to go into those very often.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

Thanks Larry,

Some reasons it can be a little hard to find is that many know AMSOIL is a Direct Sales Company meaning anyone can buy from them. They don't understand and are usually unwilling to listen and accept how they can sell AMSOIL.

Other places want to buy through their warehouses for distribution and that is against current AMSOIL policy. They can still purchase it, just not through central distribution.

Wal-Mart approached AMSOIL a few years ago. AMSOILS response... We will set you up with a Dealer in your area.... WM.. We are Wal-mart, we buy direct. AMS... Congratulations, we are AMSOIL and we don't sell direct... the initial order was estimated at over $40 Million.

Dealers built AMSOIL and they have taken the stance that it will remain a dealer based company. ALL sales go though a dealer. That goes for the state of Texas and Volvo Marine.

Some people believe that by going to the corporate site, they are buying direct. They are not.

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[Dookoo]

I run the 'worst' synthetic in every car, quad, off road vehicle, dirt bike, motorcycle, track bike, performance turbo 4 cylinder (430 all wheel drive hp to the wheels)...Mobil 1 synthetic from Costco, the one with energy conserving additives. I've run Baja on dirt bikes and off road trucks and Jeeps. I am not easy on any of my vehicles. I have never had an oil related issue. My secret - pick a decent oil and do regular changes.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

I go 16,000 on the Wing, 8000 on the Yamaha, 10,000 on the Harley, 25,000 on my gas truck and I am at 20,000 on my diesel that calls for 7500 change under non severe service...3500 for severe.

Those are regular intervals, right ? And towing a 30' loaded enclosed trailer for most of those diesel miles is not severe service, right ? LOL

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn't cheap
Cheap isn't The Best

Bob

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

I have ran synthetics in my Bikes Since 1984 and have never had clutch slippage. I switch to Synthetic at my Initial changes on New Bikes. There is no such thing as break-in as far as oil type. 600 is the most common initial service and it is used to remove machining and casting debris loosened by heat cycling of the engine.

Where the problem comes from is someone will run ABC oil and had a problem and ABC was a Synthetic so ALL Synthetics will cause this problem. Just not so.

Gas is not gas, oil is not oil and ALL Synthetics are not Alike.

The additive packs that are used in some Faux Synthetics such as Castrol SynTec and others to make them work more closely to a True Synthetic were more likely the cause.

The other problem is the person buying the oil. An automotive oil Can be used as long as it has the proper API Ratings which are SG or SG/SH. They will think that a high API is better and can use an SH or Higher and the only time you can is if the JASO MA or MA2 Rating is present.

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn’t cheap
Cheap isn’t The Best

Bob

 

[Silver Bullet]

I took a 2,500 mile trip to from San Antonio to Colorado and back one week ago. Before going, I did an oil change and used Honda HP-4S full synthetic for the first time. The bike had 8,000 miles at time of the change. I had my clutch noticeably slip twice on my trip. The engine just revved until I shifted gears. I was on a moderate mountain road for one occasion, don't remember what kind of road on the other. My clutch never slipped before or since. I will probably run partial synthetic next change. I didn't like having my engine free wheeling in the mountains. I was not expecting the possibility of this happening, and was surprised to have it happen.

 

[Amsoil Dealer Group]

The HP4 is a very good oil, and is a Hydro-Cracked so basically it is a "part Synthetic". To be honest, I have heard of problems but when we traced it back, almost every time, Mobil 1 Automotive oil was used previously.

Not saying this is the case you have, just what we have found. That being said, it could be that we have found M-1 being the culprit more often as it is a popular oil.

I really don't think the HP4 is causing a clutch problem. Could the problem have been there and you only noticed as you have not had the bike in a circumstance where it is loaded and building a lot of heat due to the stress before this?

Also what sounded strange is "The engine just revved until I shifted gears" which makes me think it sounds like a false neutral. That, can be caused by an oil problem, not because it is Synthetic but, from a lack of proper additives.

What viscosity did you use?

Oil, is the Lifeblood of your engine. The oil filter, is the Kidney that keeps it clean.

The Best isn’t cheap
Cheap isn’t The Best

Bob