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Old 06-09-2013, 07:41 PM   #1
jocressm
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Default Where to start

I have a 1984 Aspencade that has almost 90000 miles on it. Starts fine but what it is doing now is when fully warmed up it developes maybe a lifter or valve rattle, maybe misses a little, and really smokes bad. None of this till it warms up. Any ideas where to start?
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Old 06-09-2013, 08:19 PM   #2
Tatanka
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Any chance you just got hold of a really poor tankful of fuel?

Have you pulled the plugs to check spark when the engine is warmed to symptom-producing level?

Anything more you can tell us about how/when it developed is all useful...
Kevin
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Old 06-09-2013, 09:55 PM   #3
jocressm
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I bought the bike in running shape but it needed a carb rebuild job. Previous owner before me tried to run seafoam in it to clear carbs. When he ran that through he said he put mystery oil in gas take. I bought the master carb kit and and carb rebuild manual from Randakks and did carbs myself. Put new fuel filter on it also. But did not drain remainder of gas out of tank. Was not a gallon in it. Maybe all of his oil. Ran great starting it up in garage. But now I have taken it out for short runs before I go any further with bike and after warm up that is when smoke starts and valve/lifter noise appears. What do you mean by spark test?
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Old 06-09-2013, 11:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by jocressm View Post
I bought the bike in running shape but it needed a carb rebuild job. Previous owner before me tried to run seafoam in it to clear carbs. When he ran that through he said he put mystery oil in gas take. I bought the master carb kit and and carb rebuild manual from Randakks and did carbs myself. Put new fuel filter on it also. But did not drain remainder of gas out of tank. Was not a gallon in it. Maybe all of his oil. Ran great starting it up in garage. But now I have taken it out for short runs before I go any further with bike and after warm up that is when smoke starts and valve/lifter noise appears. What do you mean by spark test?
While I suspect from what you've said that your fuel might be hinky, let's eliminate spark first. Pull, clean and check your plugs one at a time. The gap should be 0.031"-0.035". Stick the plug back in the resistor (cap) and the plug electrode against a good ground with insulated pliers while turning over the engine with the starter with the bike in neutral. The spark should be strong and usually blueish. Repeat with the other plugs.

Once you've confirmed good spark all around, I'd go back to the fuel. Fill the tank with known good gas and dose it with 1oz./gal. of SeaFoam and see what happens as you run it over the next day or two and report findings. Good luck!
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Kevin
1995 1500 Aspencade named "Cochise"
1985 1200 Aspencade named "Tatanka"
IDMWT club #18
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Old 06-10-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
Cantankerous
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When was the last time the oil was changed? Is it diluted with fuel?
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #6
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When was the last time the oil was changed? Is it diluted with fuel?
+1
= Check the patient's blood.

Also, when it smokes what does the smoke feel like and smell like? Oily, gassy (unburnt fuel) or more like steam with a sweetish smell? Are you using up coolant or is it holding it's level fine?
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"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." ~ Thomas Paine

Kevin
1995 1500 Aspencade named "Cochise"
1985 1200 Aspencade named "Tatanka"
IDMWT club #18
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Old 06-13-2013, 09:45 PM   #7
jocressm
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Smoke is blue. Oily smell. I check oil level and seemed to be way overfilled from previous owner. Put new plugs in, have good spark, and changed oil. But after warm up it smokes like a fogger. I am at a loss. Went to check compression but my guage won't fit threads. Will have to get another guage. If rings were bad wouldn't it smoke all the time? Will compression be low then? Or does it need new valve seals or something done with the heads? Am hoping not to have to take motor all the way down.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:46 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jocressm View Post
Smoke is blue. Oily smell. I check oil level and seemed to be way overfilled from previous owner. Put new plugs in, have good spark, and changed oil. But after warm up it smokes like a fogger. I am at a loss. Went to check compression but my guage won't fit threads. Will have to get another guage. If rings were bad wouldn't it smoke all the time? Will compression be low then? Or does it need new valve seals or something done with the heads? Am hoping not to have to take motor all the way down.
Is your air filter really clean? When you did the carb rebuild, where did you set the pilot screws? (How many turns out from just touching bottom.) What did the plugs you replaced look like and what do the new plugs look like now that you've run them? You sure all the oil is out of your gas tank/fuel system?

You'll definitely want to check compression when it's warmed up and producing the smoke. Does seem odd that it only does it warmed up if it's the rings. Your Wing doesn't have enough miles to have such wear. It's possible but not too likely. Over-rich carb settings or an over-rich burn from a plugged air filter can produce smoke that seems like oil burning. Have to check the plugs and compression to narrow it down.
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"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." ~ Thomas Paine

Kevin
1995 1500 Aspencade named "Cochise"
1985 1200 Aspencade named "Tatanka"
IDMWT club #18

Last edited by Tatanka; 06-14-2013 at 12:00 AM.
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Old 06-14-2013, 09:09 AM   #9
hellonwheels13
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I can't imagine motorcycle engines are much different than automobile engines. If I had those conditions in a car engine I'd suspect valves or piston rings.
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Old 06-14-2013, 04:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by hellonwheels13 View Post
I can't imagine motorcycle engines are much different than automobile engines. If I had those conditions in a car engine I'd suspect valves or piston rings.
I'd normally think so, too, but hoping it's a simpler fix. The miles seem awfully low for worn out rings. Then again, we don't know the bike's history.

One of the benefits of trying to help others with Classic Wings is it forces me to think better about my own projects. For example, I'm currently stymied by an '83 GL1100 that only has 70,000 miles on it, sat for a long time, but I soaked the cylinders with 2-cycle oil for about 9 months before ever trying to start it. At first, I was faked out by the smoke coming out of it, thinking the rings/valves must be shot, but when I checked the spark I realized it was weak all round and the smoke was unburnt fuel, not oil. The plugs were sooty, not oily after running.

When I rebuilt the carbs, I set the air/fuel (pilot) screws to spec + 1/2 turn richer, which some experienced fellas recommended. As a result of responding to this thread, I got an idea that may or may not work: I'm leaning down the pilot screws a full turn to see if the spark I have can burn at least THAT much fuel in the mix. It's not the full solution at all, but at least the bike will run better and longer, allowing me to move onto the next stage while shopping for the right ignition components instead of just throwing overpriced parts at it.
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"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands by it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph." ~ Thomas Paine

Kevin
1995 1500 Aspencade named "Cochise"
1985 1200 Aspencade named "Tatanka"
IDMWT club #18
Tatanka is online now   Reply With Quote
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