Trying to wire a Zumo to '12 GL1800 [Archive] - Honda Goldwing Forums

: Trying to wire a Zumo to '12 GL1800


Beamerho
03-13-2013, 05:03 PM
I'm new at this so please bear with me. I recently purchased a leftover '12 gl1800 with the ABS. I know there are lots of reasons (mostly all good) not to do it but I need and want to hardwire or BT my Garmin Zumo 660 into the existing sound system.

So far, I have tried the J&M CBFR -GL1800. It all connects but there is a very loud buzzing that I cannot eliminate. So , I have the Garmin blutoothed to the J&M and also BT'd to the phone. IT all works as it should except for the loud buzz that is present over all the sound, radio, CB, intercom, phone. It is the loudest on the phone and makes it unusable. J&M at first were helping me out by trying this and that and another, but now have not been responsive.

Second I have tried hardwiring the GPS cradle to the bike using the CM1026 interface supplied by Mr. Goldwing. That seems to work ok, Sound quality is not real good and it affects the radio, music too. but the Garmin works, the phone works as far as dialing and receiving calls thru the Zumo. The drawback is that I am having a lot of difficulty speaking over the phone. The guy on the other end hears nothing or only bits and pieces. Mr Goldwing claims it works great on other bikes and is working with me to resolve the issues. Right now I am trying different settings on the intercom mute to see what affect that has on the mic.

So the question is; Has anyone out there successfully made this connection, if so how?

Thanks
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Chopin
03-13-2013, 05:59 PM
Might try to ask this over here :http://gl1800riders.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?98-2012-Goldwing-Board&.

Dandy Dave
03-13-2013, 06:06 PM
If you are powering the Garmin from the bike, you need an isolated cable or a ground loop isolator. Try running the Zumo from its' internal battery and see if the hum goes away. If it does, get an isolated cable or a GLI.

bcihil
03-14-2013, 09:55 AM
You can get both the GLI and noise filters from Electrical Connections.

http://www.electricalconnection.com/audio/filter-gli.htm

http://www.electricalconnection.com/audio/filter-power.htm

dadztoy
03-21-2013, 11:36 PM
You have several issues here... The first is the buzzing noise which may be caused by the fuel pump or ABS on the bike or possible some other noise source... I would first try wiring the Zumo directly to the bike battery and see if that resolves the issue...

If not you can try adding filters to remove the unwanted buzzing... I'm not real familiar with 2012 models but I do know they changed a few things from my 09... I would first look to Honda for filters that might be used with the CB and I would also look to Honda TSB's to see if there was an issue with this on other bikes...

You could also try an isolation transformer (GLI or Ground Loop Interference Filter) on the audio input line from the Zumo... A number of manufacturers make these including Radio Shack, Electrical Connection and many others...

The issue of people not hearing you while on your phone is a fairly common one with Zumo GPS and those riders using dynamic mics... You didn't mention what type of headset you are using but virtually all Goldwing headsets today are using dynamic mics...

I on the other hand use an old Airrider headset that uses an electret mic... They were made quite a few years ago when Airrider was just breaking into the headset market... They didn't gain much popularity because they use an external 9 volt battery and some interface electronics housed in a small plastic box that must be housed somewhere on the bike... I have mine in my front fairing pocket and under the seat for the passenger...

The great advantage to an electret mic is they much more output than a dynamic mic and as such, will drive the Bluetooth audio of the Zumo quite successfully...

I have installed a number of Zumo's on various club members bikes and I can get them all to work PROVIDED that the headset in question has a reasonably new mic and it is in good working order... The problem is one of the Zumo circuits being optimized for an electret mic which is what they use internally in the GPS and also the AVC (automatic volume control) used within the GPS itself...

The key to success here is to use a thin wind sock and to literally "eat the mic" when using it on a cell call and speak much louder than you normally would... This is of course if your using a dynamic mic... If your fortunate enough to be using an old Airrider headset like I use, or other electret mic equipped headset, then you would not be having any problems...

Unfortunately, there are no headset manufacturers currently using electret mics in their headset setups for Goldwings... IMC has some that utilize electret mics but you would have to buy a regular headset plus the electret mic and then cobble some electronics together for the interface... Here is the link to IMC in case your interested

http://imcmoto.com/honda-goldwing-headsets.html

The only other solution I can offer to confirm low mic audio is to remove the windsock completely from existing mic and put it right up against your mouth while making a call and speak loudly into the mic... If the people can hear you on the other end, it is a low mic audio condition with the Zumo...

Anther thing you might try is using an external amplifier between the headset mic and the Zumo mic input - something like a Boosteroo or a Mix-It amplifier - that might work... Or if your handy, you can build your own headset and use an electret mic - I did that years ago on my old 1200 Wing...

Good luck with your project... drop me an e-mail or PM if you need further help... Don't know where your located but I'm near Chicago and if you want to bring the bike over when it gets warmer, we'll get it to work for you...

dadztoy

Dandy Dave
03-22-2013, 06:41 AM
Nice post, Dadztoy...

Beamerho, a location helps people offer help.. If you are near Daytona Beach, I could help...

Beamerho
03-22-2013, 08:47 AM
Nice post, Dadztoy...

Beamerho, a location helps people offer help.. If you are near Daytona Beach, I could help...

I'm in Gaithersburg, MD.

dadztoyz, that was great information and gives me a lot to try. I doubt i could typ that much! Lol I am using a J&M headset that connects to the bike by wire. j&M and the honda dealer claims that was the way to go. They j&m were supposed to send me a gli but I have not gotten it and they stopped talking to me. I already tried running the zumo off it's internal battery with no difference. I have also tried a different garmin with same problem. Right now the zumo gets power from the battery, I have the ferrite filters all over the place. I guess the neat step is put one of the gli between the cfbr-1800 and the bike.

DataRider
03-22-2013, 09:03 AM
+ 1 on the ground loop isolator. $10 fix...I went to Amazon and had it sent in a day. Used this on 2 Wings.

dadztoy
03-22-2013, 07:34 PM
Beamerho,

Running the GPS to the battery is usually a pretty good cure because the battery acts like a giant filter capacitor under most conditions...

The next step to try is the GLI filter - that should most certainly take care of the buzzing... I would also check to make sure that you have any optional filters installed on the bike, like when they install the CB and such, there are usually filters that come with the CB kit...

My CB was already installed on my bike when I bought it used so I can't speak directly to that, but I would be willing to bet there are filters that come with it - I know there was on the 1500 for sure... If you don't have those installed, even though you may not have a CB, install them anyway - and by all means, install the GLI filter too...

I have installed Zumo 550's, 660's and my own 665 on GL1800's and also GL1500's... When I first installed my Zumo on my previous 1500, I did have a noise problem... Subsequent troubleshooting revealed I had grounds at various ground potentials, or in other words, ground loops... I got rid of the noise on my 1500 by changing the ground point from the battery ground (battery negative) to attaching it to the back of the CB radio where it was grounded - VIOLA - no more noise!!! I have not had any issues on my 1800 to date...

Motorcycles are just full of ground loops and noisy components and it is quite difficult to quiet them down if you have a problem... Don't lose hope - you will get this working...

As far as the J&M headset and mic, their mic is a dynamic one, and as such, will suffer from this Bluetooth issues with the Zumo GPS units BUT - - they will work...

Follow my directions for a test by removing the windsock and literally eating that mic and speaking loudly when you place a cell call - the other party should hear you with no issue... This will let you know the mic works, now it's just a matter of using a small windsock, speaking loudly, and getting that mic right on your lips when you speak... You don't have to have the bike running for this test - use the accessory position on the ignition switch - that way you won't have any buzzing - or at least I don't think you will as nothing else is really running but the radios...

I am quite surprised that manufacturers like J&M, Edsets, etc hasn't come out with a little inline amp to boost the dynamic mic's audio... The Goldwing intercom and GPS Bluetooth accessories could certainly use a small boost of audio...

I have been a firm believer in electret mics ever since I built my 1200 CB radio and then started using the Airrider electret mics... The audio is just so crisp and clear and there is plenty of it too... I'll never use anything else even if I have to make my own interface box and/or headsets... IMC headsets might work for you as they have some that use electret mics but you would have to design and build your own interface box... It's not difficult, just a handful of components and a 9 volt battery... BTW, the 9 volt batteries I use on my Airriders lasts well over a year as the current draw of the electret mic is down in the micro amps, almost as low as the battery shelf life itself... I change them every year in the Spring just to make sure I don't have any issues... I guess that's why they never caught on - because of the external battery... No one to date (Edsets was working on it) has been successful in using the bike's internal power for the microphone because the bike's internal power is just too noisy...

My current setup consists of a Xumo 665 and an old Motorola V3 RAZR - not the new one but a very old one... That little Motorola RAZR will marry up to any GPS or other Bluetooth I have ever tried - it's a "dumb phone" by today's standards but smart enough for me, and it works exceedingly well on all Bluetooth devices I have run across to date...... I use the XM on my Zumo rather than the bike as I also subscribe to Nav Weather and Nav Traffic on the Zumo and I also use it's MP3 player too... That's loaded with my Golden Oldies!!! I use the bike's Navi as a supplement to my Zumo because you can't change any of the bike's Navi settings while riding...

I will usually place a phone call to my wife when I'm on the way home from a ride or if I have my granddaughter out with me, I'll let my wife know we're OK and on the way home... It's a great feature to have and I do enjoy it...

Keep us informed of your progress...

dadztoy

johnocooper
03-22-2013, 09:39 PM
I have a Zumo 665 connected to my 2006's AUX input and a radar detector connected to the intercom via a Kennedy device. I use Plugup's in-ear earbuds. Some buzzing is part of the package.

The ground loop isolators from EC are useless in my opinion, I have bought many good items from EC and will again but the ground loop isolator did not solve the problem. It is worthless.

The buzz is particularly bad with the cruise control engaged. This is owing to some unshielded wires routing over the cruise motor (so I am told).

The solution I used is a $10 volume control device from radioshack. It connects in-line with my earbuds (3.5mm connectors) and trades volume for buzz. I got the solution from someone on this board and it is cheap and works.

dadztoy
03-22-2013, 10:42 PM
I have a Zumo 665 connected to my 2006's AUX input and a radar detector connected to the intercom via a Kennedy device. I use Plugup's in-ear earbuds. Some buzzing is part of the package.

The ground loop isolators from EC are useless in my opinion, I have bought many good items from EC and will again but the ground loop isolator did not solve the problem. It is worthless.

The buzz is particularly bad with the cruise control engaged. This is owing to some unshielded wires routing over the cruise motor (so I am told).



I have seen a fix for that (cruise control noise) on the Fred Harmon maintenance videos... I have those and Fred actually makes a metal shield that fastens over the cruise control box - that might be worth looking into as an additional fix for this issue...

The maintenance videos are sold under the brand name Angel Ride Videos... Here is the link for the photos that deal with that...

http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/cruisefix

and here is the link for the maintenance videos

http://www.angelridevideos.com/

If you guys don't own these videos - you should!!! They are invaluable to anyone turning his own wrenches on an 1800...

Les

Ray N.
03-23-2013, 06:08 AM
I have a 660 interfaced to a J&M cbfr-gl1800 on a 2013 GL1800abs model. My Zumo is tied into the aux. terminal by the fuse box.

It's working fine for me so far. I haven't had any loud buzzing in the headset.

johnocooper
03-23-2013, 07:36 AM
I have seen a fix for that (cruise control noise) on the Fred Harmon maintenance videos... I have those and Fred actually makes a metal shield that fastens over the cruise control box - that might be worth looking into as an additional fix for this issue...

The maintenance videos are sold under the brand name Angel Ride Videos... Here is the link for the photos that deal with that...

http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/cruisefix

and here is the link for the maintenance videos

http://www.angelridevideos.com/

If you guys don't own these videos - you should!!! They are invaluable to anyone turning his own wrenches on an 1800...

Les

I own the the videos, just had no idea this was covered. Thanks for the tip.

Dandy Dave
03-23-2013, 08:13 AM
Beamerho, could we have more description of the "loud buzzing"?
Does it change frequency/pitch with engine speed? or is it steady?
Is it more of a whine, does it change with engine speed?
Do you hear the noise with the motor off, as well as running?
I assume that if you disconnect the Zumo from power the noise goes away, yes? Does it go away if you disconnect audio, but leave power connected?

This could be ground loop, most likely. But, the power or audio cables might have been run too close to something that is interfering. The cruise control is one of the more notorious offenders. People make a plate from metal to put over it to shield the noise.
What other accessories do you have? HID lights can cause issues, for instance.

Yours is a new bike, but I have had really buzzy ignition noise in the past. The cure was to clean all the grounds.
I also had alternator whine on my GPS. A couple of EC inline noise filters helped that.

I see you ran the Zumo off it's internal battery. That kind of eliminates GLI problems. But, you still need the isolated cable or GLI if you want to run to off the bike power.

dadztoy
03-23-2013, 11:23 AM
Yeah, I agree, but the Zumo will only run an hour or two off it's own internal battery... If your on a long trip, the Zumo battery will surely peter out before your there...

Grounds are a real possibility, but I wouldn't expect that on a newer bike like your 2012 - HOWEVER - it could happen due to improper assembly or the like - I never say never!! :) I am still leaning toward either a ground loop or the buzzing interference from the cruise control in both John's and Bemerho's case... Both of these areas are known problems in the past...

Les

johnocooper
03-23-2013, 12:25 PM
One thing to keep in mind i sa lot of people do not hear the buzz because of the speakers in use. before I switched to in-ear earbuds what little buzz there was; was no bother. I rode the bike for years in that configuration.

In my case, and I have spent many hours working on this issue, there are two distinct sources of buzz.

1) Related to the engine, follows the engine and goes away when the engine is shut off. This source is minimized (but not eliminated) with a ground loop isolator.

2) Cruise control buzz. This is really annoying and is not impacted by ground loop isolators. It follows the activity of the cruise servo motor. It can be mitigated with a cheap inline volume control (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13007616&znt_campaign=CMS&znt_source=CAT&znt_medium=RSCOM&znt_content=MusicAudioPortable)(basically trade buzz for volume). Example; without the inline volume control I would run my GL1800 volume at 7 or 8 (again using in-ear earbuds); with volume control I run the volume at 20-22 but the buzz is all-but-gone.

When I next remove the top cover I will apply Fred's fix for the the cruise buzz.

dadztoy
03-23-2013, 01:17 PM
Good deal John - sounds like you have a handle on it... The cruise control shield should help...

Regarding the other noise (buzz??) I would suggest that you might try different grounding points on the bike, i,e, engine block, ground at accessory plug in left front fairing pocket, etc...

Remember that ground loops (noise) are caused by different ground potentials so utilizing a different ground may solve the problem... That is what I found on my 1500 and also my 1200...

Les

Beamerho
03-23-2013, 09:17 PM
Good deal John - sounds like you have a handle on it... The cruise control shield should help...

Regarding the other noise (buzz??) I would suggest that you might try different grounding points on the bike, i,e, engine block, ground at accessory plug in left front fairing pocket, etc...

Remember that ground loops (noise) are caused by different ground potentials so utilizing a different ground may solve the problem... That is what I found on my 1500 and also my 1200...

Les


OKAY. HEAR ARE THE MINUTE DETAILS OF MY PROBLEM.

first, I had this sumo on another bike, HD Dresser, connected with a Kennedy cell set. Worked absolutely wonderful. I could talk on the phone and people could not tell I was going down the road 70 mph. I traded on the wing Jan 30. It has been real cold and icy so most of my testing has been in the garage or in the driveway

The dealer installed the CFBR GL1800. The first I tried it was in the garage, zumo on it's own power, Bluetooth connection to the cfbr, phone also paired to the zumo. Bike on acc not running, radios all work fine. Gps works but has the buzz. Not enough to overpower the turn prompts but really annoying and I would not use it that way. The buzz makes the phone unusable. It connects, I can dial and receive but the buzz over powers all talking.

The buzz. Definitely not a whine. Remember putting baseball cards on the spokes of your bicycle and going as fast as possible down a hill? That is the noise constant and loud.it does not change with engine running at any speed, it does sitting outside in the driveway bike running or not.

Here is everything I have done so far

Connected the zumo to the power source then to the bike battery.
Tried my wife's gps with bt connection - same noise there
I paired the phone to the cfbr with out going thru the zumo - same noise but not as bad but still makes it unusable.
I tried pulling all the extra wires and connectors out of the pocket to try to eliminate them touching something they shouldn't - same noise
I also got radio shack ferrite filters and put them on the mic cords and all the power cords - no change.

Many of thes "fixes" were suggest by John at J&M. Last talk I had with him, he was going to send a filter of some sort to try. That was three weeks or more ago. No filter in mail and he does not return my emails.

There is where I am at on this.

I am going to try the power filter dadztoyz suggested and probaly the gli from electrical connection. But I need to wait till they get her.

I'll definitely keep you posted. I thing the cfbr is a bum unit.

Most of these

dadztoy
03-23-2013, 11:59 PM
OK Beamerho - I just reread all the posts and duh!!! I just noticed your reference to the J&M CFBR... I have no experience with this unit and it appears to be pretty new from J&M who normally puts out a pretty good product...

I guess the question that pops up in my mind would be why didn't you just integrate your GPS into the aux input of the bike and then marry up your phone to the Zumo 660 thru it's Bluetooth interface???

In doing so, with the addition of a fairly simple mic splitter cable for about 70 bucks that can be achieved... I have made this modification to a few bikes now using the Zumo 660 and 665 and it works quite well... The only short coming will be the mic audio into the Zumo when on the cell phone... Your J&M headset uses a dynamic mic and their output is marginal for driving the Bluetooth circuits in the Zumo but they do work...

Because of my ignorance of what is in and just how the J&M CFBR interface works, I can only suspect that perhaps they have installed a preamp for the mic circuit in this device which your previous Harley had in it which is why that worked so well... Again, I'm not a Harley expert but to the best of my knowledge, they use a preamp in the mic circuit for better audio...

What I am going to suggest now you probably won't want to hear, but I would suggest at this juncture you reinstall your Zumo 660 using only it's wiring and purchase one of those mic splitters either from Edsets or Bike MP3 as seen below...

http://wingstuff.com/products/32871-gps-mic-interface

http://www.edsets.com/microphone_signal_splitter?category_id=0&search_string=mic+splitter&search_category_id=0

I know these setups work on all late model bike up to and including my 2009... I know they have made a few changes on the 2012 but I believe this set-up will work...

I have no experience with the J&M CFBR and it may be a fine piece of equipment but because of my ignorance with that device the only further advice I can offer at this point is what I know works...

Once you have the Zumo reinstalled using the bike's aux input cable and the mic splitter also installed, try it again - I think you will experience a bit more success...

Les

dadztoy
03-24-2013, 12:08 AM
BTW, FWIW, I just went over to the J&M website and looked at the install instructions for the CFBR and found this note in the document:


Noise and Interference
Motorcycle audio systems by their very nature are noisy. While we
do not guarantee this system to be completely free from electrical
noises and interference, we have taken many steps to achieve that
goal: the power supply system is well filtered, the unit is shielded
in its metal container, and the cables associated with the unit are
shielded.